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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 23, 2011 2:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: THE number: 27

Not that anyone cares, and frankly, I don't know squat about her other than what I caught glimpses of here and there--scandal sheet/tabloid stuff in the line at the grocery store, but it just strikes me as somewhat intriguing that Amy of the Winehouse was 27 when she passed.

We all know how many of the ones of "our" time period took the plunge at that age, and it seems more than coincidence?

Statistical analysis, anyone?

Sorry if this seems cold and heartless; I know nothing about her...

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 23, 2011 3:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27

I don;t find it intriguing at all. If there's a linking factor to be found here it's in the choice of a lifestyle that is probably significantly likely to increase the likelihood of mortality at a relatively early age. A small cluster of four deaths at 27 (Hendrix, Joplin, Jones, Morrison) spread over a two year period is hardly statistically significant and no basis whatsoever for attributing some mysterious property to the number 27. Spreading the net to add Johnson, McKernan and Cobain, et al doesn't make it any less coincidental.

Humans are hard-wired to spot patterns - but that doesn't mean that the pattern you see actually means something. There is of course the possibility that the troubled Amy W., knowing of the 27 Myth, decided to join the club, but that's absolutely unfounded speculation on my part.

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Poster: user unknown Date: Jul 23, 2011 4:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27

"If there's a linking factor to be found here it's in the choice of a lifestyle that is probably significantly likely to increase the likelihood of mortality at a relatively early age."

Hear, hear

Although, a little research( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/27_Club ) adds quite a few names from the world of music to the infamous "27 Club". Alan "Blind Owl" Wilson of Canned Heat is one that isn't frequently mentioned



This post was modified by user unknown on 2011-07-23 23:16:13

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 23, 2011 4:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27

If you feel so inclined you can add Joseph 'Elephant Man' Merrick, IRA hunger striker Bobby Sands and poet Rupert Brooke to the list. Just because we're more likely to take note of the fates of the famous doesn't make it any less coincidental.

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Poster: user unknown Date: Jul 23, 2011 4:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27

And, as you already pointed out, many of those fatalities were the direct result of poor lifestyle choices.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 23, 2011 4:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27... or 28?

And just to ram home the coincidence thing with a blunt instrument:

Big Bopper
Tim Buckley
Steve Gaines
Heath Ledger
Brandon Lee
Stephen Crane
Emperor Caligula
and Mary Jo Kopechne

all died at 28.

So why no 28 Club?

I'm sure a quick down and dirty search could attach a list of significant names meeting their demise to just about any age.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffLum Edwards Date: Jul 24, 2011 7:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27... or 28?

You could pick any age and have a club.

5 minutes on google gave me this for 65.

Musicians dead at 65

Isaac Hayes
Dave Dee
Theophilus Beckford
Richard Wright
Chuck Day
Ray Davis
John Phillips
Willie King
Art Taylor
Carl Perkins
Leslie Gourse
Big Al Downing
Dave Van Ronk
John Herald

The whole 27 myth happened because of Hendrix, Joplin and morrison all dying really close to each other. I do remember Janis Joplins death effecting my Mother and her younger sister. At that time I hadnt a clue who Hendrix or Morrison was. Musta been surreal to fans at the time.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 24, 2011 7:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27... or 28?

I believe that's pretty much what I said, but thanks for chiming in with confirmation.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 24, 2011 12:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27... or 28?

Not it was ever clear, but my pt was is there anything to it, which first, requires a stat analysis, but I wouldn't b surprised if there is a pile up @ late 20s for simple reasons: ie, you have to live long enough to get famous, and fast enough abuse wise, so ur not likely to live much into ur 30s...?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 24, 2011 12:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27... or 28?

Live fast, die young and leave a beautiful corpse?

I think you have the bases pretty much covered, Master Tell.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 24, 2011 2:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27... or 28?

Just wanted 2 b clr I n no way support any of the whacky 'implied' causative agents, but wonder if there might b a sm peak in the normal distribution for drug abusing r&r sorts...sorry--phone post! One of my first...

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 24, 2011 2:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27... or 28?

I'd never suspect you of supporting anything that couldn't be substantiated.

Phone posts? You technophiliac fool you! There'll be no stopping you now. 20,000 posts before Christmas!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 23, 2011 5:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27... or 28...or?

Yeah, but can they sing? Er, could they sing?

I didn't mean to imply anything but chance to it--however, even chance can result in a pattern. That was my point: by shear chance, have musical over indulgent sorts just happened to die at 27 more often than not? You know me well enough to know I'd not ascribe ANY significance to it whatsoever if it is a pattern, other than that due to some alien life sucking jello blob having landed in New Mexico when SDH was born.

So, we'd have to do a statistical analysis of "musical sorts that Tell has been exposed to that died at 27" (hmmm, perhaps THAT's the causal factor! Of course, I choose to ignore those that don't fit the pattern...convenient, eh?).

I imagine you're right...that we'd find it all over the board, Jerry and Keith for a couple, screwed up the trend, right? Have to admit, though, I do always look to see if it is 27, as you note...

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jul 23, 2011 5:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27... or 28?

coincidental purely by reason of the fact that the 4 most commonly referenced having died at 27 (Hendrix, joplin, jones, morrison), were all huge names in the press/media, and died within a short time-frame of each other; media into every home really came to the fore in the '60s (speaking generally here), and stories such as those 4 deaths no doubt generated much talk in the media, and hey, look, they were all 27, let's start a club; cobain is a mere footnote

edit: Pigpen died @ 27yo too, fyi

This post was modified by Arbuthnot on 2011-07-24 00:31:01

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Poster: user unknown Date: Jul 24, 2011 5:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27... or 28?

"Musicians usually included in the 27 Club"

the aforementioned:
Brian Jones
Jimi Hendrix
Janis Joplin
Jim Morrison
Kurt Cobain

"Cobain and Hendrix biographer Charles R. Cross writes, "The number of musicians who died at 27 is truly remarkable by any standard. [Although] humans die regularly at all ages, there is a statistical spike for musicians who die at 27"

"Other musicians who died at 27"
the aforementioned
Robert Johnson
Ronald "Pigpen" McKernan
Alan "Blind Owl" Wilson
Amy Winehouse
and then there was...
Rudy Lewis...The Drifters...May 20, 1964
Malcolm Hale...Spanky & Our Gang...October 31, 1968
"Dyke" Christian...Dyke & the Blazers...March 13, 1971
Les Harvey...Stone The Crows...May 3, 1972
Roger Lee Durham...Bloodstone...July 27, 1973
Wallace Yohn...Chase...August 12, 1974
Pete Ham...Badfinger...April 24, 1975
Gary Thain...Uriah Heep...December 8, 1975
Pete de Freitas...Echo & The Bunnymen...June 14, 1989
Mia Zapata...The Gits...July 7, 1993
Kristen Pfaff...Hole...June 16, 1994

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/27_Club

It seems Mr. Cross may have a valid point. The list covers musicians(not all mentioned above)who died at age 27. The first perished on March 26, 1908 and the last on July 23, 2011. There seems to be a heavy concentration in the "Rock and Roll Era".

That being said, for each name on this list there are thousands of musicians who lived much past the age of 27. And there are many who never saw their 27th birthday.

"Coincidence is the word we use when we can't see the levers and pulleys."...Emma Bull

This post was modified by user unknown on 2011-07-24 12:50:59

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 24, 2011 6:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27... or 28?

"Coincidence is the word we use when we can't see the levers and pulleys."...Emma Bull


Correlation does not equal causation.

:-)

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Poster: duckpond74 Date: Jul 24, 2011 9:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27... or 28?

Rob, are you familiar with the musical side of Ms. Bull? Have you heard her bands, Cats Laughing or The Flash Girls?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 24, 2011 9:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27... or 28?

Can't say that I have. Do you recommend I give her a listen?

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Poster: duckpond74 Date: Jul 24, 2011 9:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27... or 28?

It's been years since I heard them. I remember liking Cats Laughing more, but Folk Roots magazine was all over The Flash Girls when it came out. They were both entertaining live and worth seeing then. Emma was great on the stage banter, as you might imagine. Very dark songs. I'll pull the discs out later and let you know how they've stood up over time.

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Poster: TOOTMO Date: Jul 24, 2011 9:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27... or 28?

"So why no 28 Club?"

Society shuns procrastinators?

TOOTMO

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 24, 2011 10:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27... or 28?

You know, I always meant to join the Procrastinators' Club. Just never got around to it somehow...

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Poster: TOOTMO Date: Jul 24, 2011 10:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27... or 28?

ba-ba-ba-bishhhhhh!!
"Try the veal."

TOOTMO


Edit: My apologies to the Forum: that must be the worst rimshot to have ever invaded this Forum. ("ba dum tish" seems to be the accepted spelling for those who care.)
t

This post was modified by TOOTMO on 2011-07-24 17:17:19

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 24, 2011 10:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27... or 28?

Ba Dum Tish sounds like one of Stan Lee's less successful creations - a sort of second cousin to Fin Fang Foom.

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Poster: leftwinger57 Date: Jul 24, 2011 9:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27... or 28?

I'm to lazy to google the info but Otis Redding and Buddy Holly ,Richie Valens, Brian Jones ,Keith Moon,Richard Manuel,Dennis Wilson,Duane Allman,Mike Bloomfield,and Steve Gaines from Lynard Skynard s' plane crash.That's from my memory and these people were not old by any stretch of imagination. Bottom line when your # is called I'll see you in the great gig in the sky.Many more have passed way to
to young for whatever the reason.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Jul 23, 2011 2:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27

As if we needed another tragic reason to Legalize Cannabis as a safe alternative and end the War On Drugs.
If the laws were geared towards helping people with addiction problems and treating them as patients instead of criminals, maybe this life would not have been cut so tragically short.

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Jul 23, 2011 6:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: THE number: 27

here here!

Though i blame no one but her. I smoke plenty and never touch any of the fools drugs. It takes education to not try these things. Or to see friends die, go to jail or be helplessly lost in addiction (thats my case...)

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Jul 24, 2011 3:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Norwegian Manifesto

Firstly, could you possibly be anymore insulting to the memories of Hendrix, Joplin, Jim, Pig and Brian mentioning this tabloid bad ju-ju trouble child in the same paragraph as this fine group of prodigious talent?

The more compelling news event is the psychopath in Norway who wrote a 1,500 page manifesto then channeled from the likes of Manson and Hilter and emulated the horrific events of Oklahoma City and Virginia Tech.

Ever notice in these sic puppy's faces the wandering eye or the stone cold one?


Where as a society do we fail to love our brothers and sisters so irresponsibly only to see them lose every aspect of rationality and take out senseless aggressions on their fellow persons?



This post was modified by dark.starz on 2011-07-24 22:05:39

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Jul 24, 2011 8:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Norwegian Manifesto

Let me see I have this straight, Drunk Kochman. Are you insinuating that the bomber in Norway was responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing and the Virginia Tech shootings? Or is that just the booze talking? I mean, if you're going to hijack a thread, you might at least try to make sense.

Edit: Hey, nice edit, above, Rob. Always good to look over those drunken rants the next day to clean up the mess you left.

This post was modified by snow_and_rain on 2011-07-25 03:20:41

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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Jul 23, 2011 9:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Norwegian Manifesto

Totally agree with your comment, but probably Hendrix, Joplin, Jim etc. were in their time, tabloid bad ju-ju trouble childs. She was talented, just sick. I will say another prayer for everyone tonight.

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Jul 24, 2011 3:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Norwegian Manifesto

Back in the 60's the few tabloids that may have existed were underground, not in the grocery store check out isle or on television.

There was no People Magazine, Entertainment Tonight, Jerry Springer, Maury Povich and all the other brain-dead media sensationalism.

American Bandstand was the American Idol of the day, teens appreciated the music industry talent by dancing to their top 40 songs, not imitating them on stage in "parrotesque" fashion. There was a plethora of original talent abound.

From time-to-time you'd read about Jim Morrison's shenanigans in Rolling Stone magazine.

However, i will agree with your assessment that much of the Rock n Roll in their day was a pathway to excess.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Jul 24, 2011 8:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 21st century American Manifesto

Re: "Where as a society do we fail to love our brothers and sisters so irresponsibly only to see them lose every aspect of rationality and take out senseless aggressions on their fellow persons?"

Your 21st century American Manifesto says, "move to China"

-- by Steve Jobs and Apple Corporation --
Steve-Jobs-with-IPad-1.jpg
"Blow Me, America! - I'm a murderer!"

Apple seeks American Engineers to join its Concentration Camps

• Apple kills its own workers in iPad 2 plant explosion •

Apple technicians earn $200 per month + explosion benefits
Apple runs torture chambers in China with extremely dangerous working conditions
foxconn-chengdu-explosion.jpg?w=500&h=362

Chinese iPad 2 workers getting maimed and killed in explosion at Apple's factory 10 weeks ago
788896-china-foxconn-explosion-1.jpg

HAPPY electronics workers ready to begin 15-hour shifts at Apple's sweatshops
article-1282481-09CEB3FA000005DC-814_634x385.jpg

Apple offers you a generous relocation package - We will provide free lodging in our prisons

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Jul 24, 2011 9:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 21st century American Manifesto

Steve Jobs & Apple make killer-iPads"
dead-head_Monte-obama-apple.jpg

My Administration and Your American Congress are working feverishly to ensure Steve Jobs and Apple kill every last American Manufacturing job. We give Steve Jobs and Apple low tax rates in return for Making American Billionaires richer. We're proud of the enormous incentives we give to Apple, HP, Dell, IBM, GE, and other great American Corporations to Kill America. We promise middle-class Americans that we will be outsourcing many, many more American Jobs.

George Bush, a.k.a. "dubya" said it best on Sept 12, 2001: "Go Shopping for iPads, iPhones, iPods, and Macs. The faster you buy products and services from Steve Jobs and Apple, the faster We Can Destroy America. Our Goal is to Eliminate ALL Good American Values."

Steve Jobs thinks The Grateful Dead are scumbags! Bear was an idiot! Ampex sucks! Bing Crosby was a moron!

Honorable Americans, we just eliminated thousands of NASA Jobs by Outsourcing America!
-- Barack Obama, President, USA, July 2011

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Jul 24, 2011 7:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 21st century American Manifesto

Come on folks;

Monte is a good man, an "industrial hippie" of sorts, perhaps, his message is sound except for the fact that America thrives on capitalism and only time may change that.


" George Bush, a.k.a. "dubya" said it best on Sept 12, 2001: "Go Shopping for iPads, iPhones, iPods, and Macs. The faster you buy products and services from Steve Jobs and Apple, the faster We Can Destroy America. Our Goal is to Eliminate ALL Good American Values."


Monte brau, the i-pod didn't hit the market until the christmas selling season of 2001, the i-phone & i-pad were just pipe dreams in ol Steve Job's braintrust.

Steve loves music, owns a rather fat Mark Levinson/Wilson Audio music system, obviously loves the Beatles and has at least two Grateful Dead LP's transferred to digital.

Monte, you might consider shifting some of this anti-Apple energy towards the Oil Companies and the upcoming Republican shove of Rick Perry out of Texas and into the White House in 2012.

In a couple years, we'll look back on this era as "C'est la vie" with remiss.

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Poster: TOOTMO Date: Jul 24, 2011 10:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 21st century American Manifesto

Monte,

Please wait 10 days before recycling your pictures and diatribes.

Thanks,
TOOTMO

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Jul 24, 2011 12:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 21st century American Manifesto

Maybe he can change his user name to dead-horse_Monte.


http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080202231409/uncyclopedia/images/1/11/Beating-a-dead-horse.gif


Amy Winehouse's mum's name: Janis

This post was modified by DeadRed1971 on 2011-07-24 19:08:13

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Jul 24, 2011 12:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 21st century American Manifesto

agreed - taking this full circle 'twice is enough'
quarterhorse.gif

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 24, 2011 10:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 21st century American Manifesto

Well said, TOOTMO! I'm right with you on this. At one point yesterday he was amending every couple of minutes. Very tedious. Monte - we get it, ok? You love Ampex, you hate Apple and you're a dope-smoking hippy. Now get off the damn soapbox!

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Jul 24, 2011 10:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 21st century American Manifesto

Thank You! Apple stock shares are trading above $390.00
mn_macworld_caps104.jpg

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 24, 2011 11:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 21st century American Manifesto

Oh give it a rest...


MillionDollarMonte.jpg



Posted from my iMac.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 24, 2011 4:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 21st century American Manifesto

Hmm, maybe I should sell my Apple shares? I get more info on it here than n the frickin WSJ!?

;)

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Poster: splue Date: Jul 24, 2011 11:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 21st century American lol

lol!

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Poster: Jacky Hughes Date: Jul 24, 2011 2:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: The number: NN

I'm with Rab C on this one: It's lifestyle that is the common factor.

It's a sad loss though, although the lady had her demons to contend with, she was a very fine singer.

It was sad to see her shambling through some of her live sets, clearly out of control: like the one at Glastonbury a few years ago.

Another contributing factor is the vampire like music industry, which doesn't care what happens to artists, just so long as they can suck more profit out of them.
Some cope with it better than others.

I will always remember in an interview, when asked if it was her own hair, she replied: "Of course honey, I paid for it myself".

I will be listening to the very fine Back to Black album today.

This post was modified by Jacky Hughes on 2011-07-24 09:08:39